Just like real cats, they need attention!

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Astrid Varelse
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Just like real cats, they need attention!

Post by Astrid Varelse » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:05 pm

So I was looking around towards creating a cat deck and it struck me after some looking around on the card spoiler that, as iconic as cats are, they haven't received any real special treatment...

Only looking at cats from 3rd Vanilla to present, there are:
2 Males:
  • [c]Ghel, Voice of the Lower[/c]
  • [card]Master Leavan[/card]
3 Herms:
  • [c]Lai Vara[/c]
  • [c]Lyscilla's Harem[/c]
  • [c]Hiberta[/c]
3 Females:
  • [c]Riesz[/c]
  • [c]Duplicat[/c]
  • [c]Persephone[/c]
2 Otherkind:
  • [c]Kitty Cube[/c]
  • [card]Spitty-kitty[/card]
1 Herm/Female:
  • [c]Fake and Jinn[/c]
That's actually a pretty good amount... The problem is that there is only ONE, yes one card. In the entire game that effects cats directly:
  • [c]Feline Front[/c]
I can see why it wasn't reprinted, as +15 max stamina to all cats would be fantastic! Obviously I can't speak for the cards in Caramel right now because the spoilers haven't all gone by, but cats have essentially no interactions right now. This is likely the case for numerous other subtypes currently because there are so many of them, and it's something I really hope becomes remedied over the games lifetime.

Me and my meowmigos will one day triumph!

PS: Yes I'm focusing on cats, and yes I'd prefer cats to get treatment sooner than every other subtype, but that's because I'm biased. I understand that this is a very wide spread issue, and I really do hope it is resolved as the game progresses.
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Seppel
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Re: Just like real cats, they need attention!

Post by Seppel » Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:16 am

There was a cause for confusion back in 1st edition. For example, see this thread: http://furoticon.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1202#p1202

We can't do bonuses for generic Furre types, such as "Cat", because it confuses other players. For example, the type "Tiger" isn't a "Cat" in Furoticon, even though logic would dictate that it is. :)
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Astrid Varelse
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Re: Just like real cats, they need attention!

Post by Astrid Varelse » Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:34 am

Yeah, I've heard of people becoming confused with cards such as [c]Etheras[/c] because [c]Jory[/c] is not effected, even though Zebras are technically Equidaes (Part of the horse family)...

I guess the best two solutions are:
  • Simplify card types (Only use basic types such as cat, horse, dog, wolf, etc), but specify specific species elsewhere on the card for artist clarification.
  • Be more specific on all cards. No more "Cat" typing. So you would only have detailed types such as Lion, Tiger, Domestic Cat, Bobcat etc.
I assuming the type complexity also stems from artists wanting their characters identity to be accurately represented on the card.
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Re: Just like real cats, they need attention!

Post by Taz » Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:36 pm

When Furre types got overhauled a while back, that was exactly what we were doing. "Cat" and "Dog" are not used in the general sense (and quite frankly don't make any sense if they were used in that way), but refer specifically to the species that most think of as housepets. Same with how Horse means specifically Equus ferus and not the whole Equidae family. Etheras I can understand being confusing because of how he was printed, but the best we can do is point at the errata and go "no Zebras, sorry". For everything printed after Strawberry, complexity is really at a minimum. What you see is what you get. [card]Master Leavan[/card] is a Cat specifically because he is a tabby variety of the housecat species. [card]Mistress Ghemeki[/card] is a Dog specifically because she's a doberman. And so forth.
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Re: Just like real cats, they need attention!

Post by polkakitty » Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:28 pm

Well, if you wanted to make a card like [card]Fox Hole[/card] or [card]Otter Spring[/card] that buffs Cats, you could just add reminder text that says something like "This effect only applies to Furres with the Cat type." I think that should clear up any confusion about what it does or doesn't affect.

And I think there are plenty of Cat and Dog Furres to make tribal support for those types viable. Between all the sets to be released after Tanglebrook, which is a weird outlier in terms of Furre types (Strawberry, Awakening, Fortune, and Caramel,) there are 13 Cat Furres and 10 Dog Furres, which is more than, say, the number of Horses or Wolves (9 of each.)

(Also, when I was counting up the Furres in Caramel to fact check this, I noticed that Caramel's [card]Endowed Equine[/card] was actually printed with "Equine" as its type, although it's supposed to be "Horse". I guess that's a particularly easy mistake to miss, though, since it's what the name of the card says....)

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Re: Just like real cats, they need attention!

Post by Seppel » Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:38 am

polkakitty wrote:(Also, when I was counting up the Furres in Caramel to fact check this, I noticed that Caramel's [card]Endowed Equine[/card] was actually printed with "Equine" as its type, although it's supposed to be "Horse". I guess that's a particularly easy mistake to miss, though, since it's what the name of the card says....)
Oh my gosh. That is embarrassing. XD
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Re: Just like real cats, they need attention!

Post by Magetorment » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:38 pm

This is one of those instances were the mechanics and the themes of the game meet up, think they're going to have a wonderful time, then when they get to the bedroom it all gets awkward.

By the very nature of the furry community people have favorite species that they want to see more of and want to build decks around. So you'd think we'd make everything tribal [IE having a deck that's exclusively one species] viable. But if we did that then for gameplay purposes certain mechanics and fetishes would have to be tied to specific species simply because there wouldn't be enough room in each set otherwise. Then you'd get situations like "Well I like vore but I wish they'd print it on something other than snakes" or "Does every fox really have to be into bondage in this game?" or "Man I just love sadism but I can't stand badgers, Furoticon why must you taunt me so?"

We tried being vague about it in 1st Vanilla, with stuff like Feline Front, Canine Central, and Equine Exhibition, but that all got really confusing and wasn't well received. So the trade-off is every now and again certain species get some degree of tribal support. The Tanglebrook Six (Dragons, Otters, Wolves, Rats, Lions, and Shapeshifters) have the most tribal support because they were they're a nice mix of the most popular species. Certain others have cards to give a little bit of a bonus for being tribal (Constructs, Foxes, Horses, Jinvon, and Squirrels). Beyond that there's a few others that you can make decks out of, but probably won't be too good (Bears, Birds, Cats, Cheetahs, Cows, Dogs, Goats, Hyena, Mice, Rabbits, Raccoon, Skunk, Tiger, and technically Snake). Though technically any deck can benefit from being tribal thanks to [card]Kinship Studios[/card] and [card]Join the Team[/card].

Cats and dogs provide a bit of a pickle, as you've probably noticed, when it comes to this kind of typing. In other games they can just say "Cat" and call it a day, even if what's pictured is a lion or a tiger or a panther. The furry community (at least the feline parts of it) expect that distinction to be made. Canines have it a bit easier, since there's an easily understood difference between a dog and a wolf, and while there's different breeds of dog they're all technically the same species. Felines though, that's where things get tricky. There's just so many different species of a big cat. It could of been divided into Feline:whatever as it's typing, but that's just adding extra layers of complication that'd bog the game down. So felines lose a bit of mechanics support for the sake of distinction.

The other trouble comes from the fact that, mechanically the game is divided by gender, but that wouldn't make sense physiologically for certain species to be tied to a gender, and that would further divide the fans (see the fetish reason above). Special exceptions made to Otherkind, that gets all the invertebrates, and the Tanglebrook Six, which had to be divided up due to gameplay concessions.

With all that rambling said we're always adding in more tribal boosts where we can. We love hearing from players like you, it's how we can gauge what the players want see.

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